Archive for the ‘church-and-state’ Category

LORD’s prayer in Australia Parliament … (religiorant)   Leave a comment

LORD’s prayer in Australia Parliament …

The Australian Parliament opens its session with the parliamentary speaker saying something along the lines of…

“HARRY JENKINS, SPEAKER (excerpt from parliamentary prayers): Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever, Amen.”

ABC insiders 13/02/2011

This is wrong, and goes against the wishes of the very deity to which they pray:

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


By doing this prayer thing in public, you dishonour Jesus, so your prayers will definitely go unanswered.

If somebody told you to not suck up to them in public, and you kept doing it, what would you expect to happen?

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the religious majority can get off their arses .. (religiorant)   Leave a comment

‎9/11 happened because the Muslim majority refused to stand up to their extremists.. this is no different to christians not doing anything about the likes of the Westboro Church and other hateful christians… when the religious majority wash their hands of their extremist minority, they condone the extremist’s actions with their inaction …

this is the case because what is the first thing that happens when a non-religious person makes a complaint about religious extremists?

1) the religious majority either say nothing or
2) they say their extremists are not “true” christians/muslims/whatever or
3) even worse, the majority try to palm off the non-believer by saying that the non-believer doesn’t know the believers religion so they should butt out

in ALL three scenarios described above, *nothing* is being done towards the problem of extremists by the religious majority, so the religious majority are irrelevant to the argument if they are not going to help fix the situation.

if there was no religion for these extremists to rally around, the extremists would just be a bunch of mercenaries, but with a religion behind them, like it or not, if the extremists are not dealt with, the extremists end up *owning* the religion….

look at all the christians who want prudish and stupid laws – imagine if they got their way, eventually those extremists would want people put to death for not believing … and don’t think that will not happen … what about those gutless christians who make death threats against non-believers for being non-believers? what about the persecution of apostates (ex-believers) in many muslim countries?

no .. persecution like that can not be tolerated because eventually what happens is society ends up living in fear of being put to death for doing or saying the wrong thing .. that’s not civilisation … that’s a prison … the four-story prison walls are not necessary, because everyone is trapped in their minds by fear.

this is why separation of church and state is mandatory for any civilised society – it stops bickering in between religions so no religion can gain new recruits via coercion, violence or other nefarious methods, so separating church and state even protects the existing religious people themselves – imagine the outrage if 100 million USA christians were forced to become catholics in a catholic christian nation?

this is exactly how the dark ages happened, the majority did nothing about the extremist minority and that extremist minority who wanted to control everyone, took over christianity, and it all got out of hand, and then we had a thousand years of intellectual vacuum in the “western” world, due to the fear instilled by religion, having been hi-jacked by the extremist minority …

Stop spreading the News (christianity flaws #2)   Leave a comment

We heard you the *FIRST* thousand times
and haven’t you done enough damage as it is?

another in the series of fundamental flaws I have identified with christians following their christianity ….

*Jesus* did not *insist* that you follow his way – and he certainly did not teach that “practising” christians annoyingly insist that the “good” news be spread!

remember that parable where the rich dude had to give up his money in order to get into heaven? (the one where he says it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven, thankfully i don’t know what that verse is by heart)

Did Jesus insist that the rich dude do that?

No, he did not, that rich dude had to come to that all by himself. Jesus *let*him*be* when he saw that the rich guy didn’t like the sound of what Jesus was proposing.

If Jesus had of insisted right then and there that the rich guy follow his way, he most likely would have put him off following “the way” (“The Way” is apparently what Jesus’ teachings were called before they were hi-jacked by “christianity”, so I’ve heard/read)

Jesus was probably cluey enough to know that there was no point in insisting to the rich dude to follow his teachings, as Jesus probably knew that people would *only* live by his teachings if they came to that decision by themselves, because if they didn’t come to it by themselves, then there would have been no point because only *you* can only change *your* beliefs

However, if someone *can* change your beliefs, it’s because you are a *sheep* and you are following because you want to fit in and get this eternal life or whatever bullshit it is and you do that without coming to an understanding the teachings by yourself. ie. you are only telling yourself that you believe, you’re not actually believing

In other words….

you can not wander up to me in the street say a few words and have me believe

you can not force people to believe

you can not legislate that people believe

you can not threaten people with violence to make them believe.

you can not beat the shit out of people to make them believe

you can not even kill someone’s family to make them believe

you can not send me a message on some social network and tell me that I need to believe, thereby making me believe

in short: you can not go around telling people about your fantasy stories (thus relieving yourself of any responsibility of actually *following* what you have allegedly been taught) and have them believe!!!

In fact, the more violence, insults, insistence and the more annoyance you perpetuate while trying to spread the “good news”, the more likely you are to destroy any inkling of a chance that this person will have a gander at this “christianity” thing you keep blabbering about to see what it entails.

that means you, Mr and Mrs and Ms christian annoyists!! You are *putting* people off your religion!!

And the fact of the matter is that pretty much everyone in a “western” society has heard of Jesus, so there should be no need to spread the word at all, so if you really *do* want to spread the “good news”, then your first stop should be Mecca.

Muslims need the teachings of Jesus way more than any non-believer that I can remember does.

So stop spreading the word to us “Westerners” and get on your bike and get your butt to Saudi Arabia, and let’s see how they like the “good news” … go on… git goin’ …

I’m serious .. and I’m talking about the positive messages in the bible, none of the hatred filled stuff … if you filter out the “do nots” and only follow the “do”s, you’ll do much better.

but are people that dumb that they need to “spread the news” when it takes just as long for them to say “praaaaayyzzzz Jaaaayyyyyzuuuuusss” or try to preach at me in some way, as it does for them to calmly and actually say or actually “do unto others” ??

what’s that about?

I *really* want to know how, in what must be millions of people, perhaps even hundreds of millions, *how* does that happen, is a materials thing? ie. have we become so accustomed to the whole process of getting something; using it up; chucking it away; getting a new one; that this is how we “westerners” treat people and our beliefs themselves?

It’s for this exact reason that I can’t call myself christian, because other people call themselves “christian” but then not follow it in the fucking least, and *then* they get offended at you for your calling them out on their idiocy.

I see the very good reason for separation of church and state in *many* people online – that’s scary – they don’t know what they are asking for!! All these people who pine for the ten commandments as the “law of the land” are extremely fucked in the head. The should try living in Iran where you have to follow the morals laid down by some holy scripture…. let’s see how much they don’t like a theocracy after actually living in one.

It is soooo pointless arguing with mental nut-case religious fanatic christians (or muslims or blah blah blah), if you can’t talk to them calmly then just forget about talking to them, I say it’s a waste of time – and you’re more likely to solidify their beliefs then to win them over…

It’s almost as if some crazy christian people just can’t be bothered to *not* be part of the christinsanity crowd as it would be too inconvenient to not be christian, so much so that some nutters need to make sure other people think the “same”.

eg. for some people, the dream is to grow up, find someone you like, get married, and live happily ever after.. but if we expand on that, some people assume that they have to have a christian wedding, so to cater for this (usually) rare event in their lifetime, they call themselves christian just to have the convenience of living the dream as it applies to them for that one event, then they go back to not giving a flying fuck about being christian at all.

I bet most people only think of being religious, when there’s a new addition to the family (baptism), getting married in a church, and then when somebody dies and they have to go to church. The only other time people are “christian” is when they fill out their census forms.

And yes I do appreciate that christians are few and far between that actually insist on talking about their beliefs in the context of trying to preach to me…

It’s a shame people in general are so brutally quick to find offence when they are on the internet — because given how badly these apparent christians attempt to “spread the news”, uhmmm… well, it’s pretty fucking funny or offensive given the context of the insult to humanity….

If you are a christian, and maybe I should have put this at the start of the blog, then you are *supposed* to spread the news by showing everybody the good deeds you do in your everyday life, and you are to do that without making a big deal out of it

Because, you see, when everybody treats everybody like that, then that’s when we’ll have world peace…. has anyone actually thought about what “world peace” would be like?

perhaps they have and it’s just too much effort to be nice to other people, or maybe it would be no fun if people were nice to everyone?

Frank Sinatra sang about spreading the news too, it was a much catchier tune as opposed to being told that I *had* to do something, just because some busy body wandered up to me or saw my heathen arse on the Internet and decided that I needed to be told about Jesus…

Separation of Church and State..   Leave a comment


a rather long blog i’ve been mostly chewing on from 9th May, 2009 til about early June, mostly..

((insert a disclaimer about profanity))

we often hear the notion of a secular society with it’s laws and stuff, you know the stuff, you watch the news, ppl getting arrested for running around robbing banks all whacked off on Scooby Snacks and all those other things that are naughty, all that sort of stuff.

In a “Western” society, such laws completely negate the need for archaic absolutist religious “laws” / “morality” don’t they? And you know, while the laws of society seem to overlap with religious morality at times, the laws of society take into account nuances of situations. Religious texts, however, do not take into account the individual’s rights we enjoy while living in a “western” culture, therefore is it not a *FACT* that in REALITY that


What is the point of this LIE people keep saying that god’s law is above that of mankind’s? That’s bullshit! If you don’t want to follow the laws of society, and instead, follow your millennia old outdated religion, then quite simply, you can fuck off back to cave you’ve been living in.

What is it with this LIE people say that they will obey god before they would obey mankind? bullshit! that’s what it is “with it” ..

The fundamentalist christians make the statement “i will obey god before man”,

I take that as a THREAT..

I’ve read much of their bible, probably more than most people .. I’ve looked up the shit I didn’t ‘get’ and didn’t stop until I was satisfied that I’d gleaned that correct interpretation.. I know what the bible is supposed to mean for the most part, I’ve read all about this “god’s law” these people would have us follow…

((let’s just be ignoring of the fact that they can’t even follow their *own* rules and yet they expect us to for the moment shall we?))

What i assume this “i will obey god before man” to mean is that they will follow the bible and enact those archaic “laws” of an “eye for an eye” or stoning your children to death for disobeying their parents. (apparently you need to have the equivalent of 20,000 thousands joints to overdose on marijuana, by the way)

Is “i will obey god before man” not a threat to start knocking down people’s doors to try and catch homosexuals in the “act”, when they are merely suspected for being gay so they can possibly be put to death?

Is that not a threat to have me put to death because you suspect I worship Satan (PBUH)?? After all, one shall not suffer a witch to live, after all…

What happens to unmarried women who are raped? Do they get forced to marry their rapists?

If by saying “i will obey god before man” they are actually meaning that they are following the teachings of Jesus, then I’m all for it… but for my mind any christian worthy of their “christian” label wouldn’t need to say such a thing if they were following Jesus, would they? What happened to compassion for everyone?

Jesus taught that the meek shall inherit the earth.. I would not expect someone ‘meek’ to brag or boast that they will follow god before man in the first place….

(I always assumed “meek would inherit the earth” means that when everyone is “meek” we would live in peace and that it would be a relative wealth sort of thing, that everyone would be of the same “worth”.. eg. a place to live, a bed to sleep on, and food on the table with the means to provide for those things.. or maybe like in Star Trek Next Generation where there was no need for money as everything was just provided, coz mostly everything could be ‘replicated’ .. … but maybe I should look that up my assumption about christianity, as I would not want to make an assumption and run with a wrong interpretation of the bible now would we?)

How can people say such things as “i will obey god before man”?

The morals in the bible are anachronistic and outdated, and they were written for a people that *needed* to be told to;

* not to be savages
* not to have butt sex only coz they’ll wipe themselves out of existence (bahahah! pun unintended)
* not to pick up dead creatures off the ground and eat them (AWWW DERRRRRR!)
* not to covet their neighbour’s wife and stuff
* not to kill
* not to tell lies

amongst other things…

and you know… sure, if your country doesn’t have a legal system, I welcome you to defer to the “laws” of the bible if that’s all you got biartch, then “GO FOR IT!” I say, it’s a basic starting point for those who like to feel close to their ancestors… and besides .. I *LOVE* Captain Caveman!!

but… uhmm… I must ask you this… uhmm… just how did your get yourself your own country?

Can I secede from *REALITY* as well?

You’d think that human beings would be grown up enough to fucking understand that killing people is a bad thing – aww deeeeeerrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!! – I mean after near 2000 years of Jesus’ teachings being around, it should have sunk in by now you would have thunk, right?



Following the bible sees the follower INSULTING their own intelligence!! and that, my friends, is FUCKING hilarious.

I learnt everything I needed to know about ‘morality’ from my family and from interacting with the world and I learned what was acceptable behaviour, and while my family were partially religious themselves, nothing they ever taught me was done so in the context of, or had any reference to the bible, not that I recall at least.

although I will admit, that apparently some bits of my morality *do* line up with the bible.. SHOCK HORROR! eg. don’t kill, like I couldn’t figure that out myself – but some people – it would *SEEM*, need to be told what’s bad and what’s good from three or four thousand years ago, because we all well know that some ppl like to reminisce and emulate their predecessors…

Me, I also love to reminisce too, I like going back to the GLORY days of the 1980s, I guess a bible basher would also like to reminisce about the 1980s too .. the difference being that their 1980s are B.C…. that’s about Moses’ time right? (isn’t it funny how these Young Earth Creationists believe that some of their biblical figures were alive for more than 10% of ALL HISTORY? eg. Adam lived for 900+ years, allegedly)


The bible says “thou shalt not kill”, which is a good thing to keep in mind if you want to get along with people. But if you did happen to kill someone, you would have broken one of the commandments of the bible,

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

and the punishment, shock horror, is being killed yourself,

Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

I suppose the “smiteth” bit vaguely implies that this only applies to a deliberate action but you see, that’s the point, this bible stuff is out-fucking-dated and it’s VAGUE!!!

sure, “thou shalt not kill” is useful, but this punishment of death thing? there are *many* situations where killing someone doesn’t or shouldn’t result in the killer being punished at all!

Self defence, Soldiers, Police, accidentally, to name a few..

Society provides exceptions where killing is considered OK or is justifiable or at least understandable considering the circumstances, but the nuances of these situations are not taken into consideration in the bible, are they?

maybe a little bit? maybe some? perhaps, a lot? maybe none? pfft…

The fact is that the bible doesn’t even say *WHY* the commandments are important or why the things listed as abominations have been deemed as such… people make up their *own* reasons as to *WHY*, that’s part of the whole appeal of christianity. none of it says *why* – so the christian gets to make up their shitty excuses for their actions and then LIE that they got that notion from the bible.

So we now have all these fuckhead christians running around saying “god hates fags”, but the bible doesn’t say that, does it? it doesn’t even give a reason why a man enjoying another man’s mangina is an abomination.. according to the bible… it just *IS* …

the fact is, if you think god hates gays, then it is *YOU* that hates gays, not god.

it is *YOU* that has extrapolated the meaning that *YOU* wanted and then you have justified it as “normal” because *YOU* claim god wants this thing to be true.

another one of these abomination things in the bible, was about not eating certain animals, that they were *unclean*. Is that a *reason*? is that a *good* reason? For my mind that’s a bit too non-specific. What if these things that are abominations, were deemed as such because of stupid reasons? or for things that we *know* are false? or things that any sensible person would know not to do.

stupid things like pigs are unclean to eat, maybe it was coz they roll around in their own shit that makes them unclean??… but what stupid fucking idiots ate their pigs raw? What fuckers don’t wash their meats before cooking and then eating them?


I kind of like to think that I’m *somehow* more enlightened than say, someone who didn’t even know Australia *existed* three thousand years ago.

Non believers are SAVAGE!

So, now keeping the previous in mind, tell me this, where do chrischuns get off calling non-believers “savages”???

The chrischun bible says if you kill someone, you get killed as punishment in turn, but does that actually happen in this day and age?

no! and why is that?

could it just be that the bible doesn’t actually have any *actual* jurisdiction in the matter? in fact, the bible has NO jurisdiction over me at all, in any regard whatsoever. I don’t believe in any of the bible, why should people get away with threatening me that they will follow god’s “word” if I don’t ‘behave’? If there are bits in the bible that line up with my morality, it’s a co-incidence or it’s COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

If it were actually the case that ppl who smiteth and kill another person were put to death, then soldiers, police and whoever else it is whose job might sometimes entail killing someone in order to defend us and protect our rights would be killed all the time. I don’t know about you, but it would be rather detrimental and expensive to society, not to mention it being just plain wrong to kill those people who were protecting society if they had to take a life as part of their duty.

The point here is that people *keep* on saying that they are adhering to these black and white “laws” of the bible, which call for killing, shunning, stoning and all other sorts of crap… but these laws in actuality, well they are actually irrelevant, because these people don’t actually follow the bible so closely as they would claim they do, do they?

I mean how often do you hear of kids being stoned to death for being disobedient to their parents?? not often… I would have been killed for one, were you disobedient to your parents as well when you were younger? If you answered yes then how come you haven’t been killed? Even the strictest fundamentalist christians don’t kill their kids for misbehaving, right?


Getting nearer to the point of separation of Church and State now.

Considering all of these things you have read thus far here, is the bible not an active *promotion* of various forms of bigotry that could be avoided if the bible was gotten rid of totally? People don’t stone their kids to death when they give them lip, do they? at least I fucking hope not, but people still CLAIM to follow the bible, the INERRANT word of god and yet HERE WE ARE, not dead in spite of nearly all of us being rebellious teenagers, especially me worshipping my satanic heavy metal devil music all in the name of Satan (PBUH)…

So this claim of following the biblical “laws” of god before the laws of man, well, that is an outright LIE, one of the many christians tell themselves, ALL THE TIME, a LIE that these fuckers insist on telling us non-believers as well..

Religion is just one MASSIVE LIE. There is no proof for any of it. What happened to just being nice to everyone for the sake of them being nice in return to you?

The most common lie is that which one lies to himself; lying to others is relatively an exception.–[Nietzsche]

But regardless, these verses that are about abominations, do they not keep alive the bullshit of chrischuns and their hating gays and blacks and witches and whatever else bigotry it is they get out of the bible?

Is there still racism today from christians because the bible says having slaves is OK? We know it’s NOT OK to have slaves, yet the bible still seems to condone it.. what are christians waiting for, are they waiting for the bible to come back into fashion so they can have some cheap cotton pickers again? well? Last time we did stuff like that, we had a THOUSAND YEARS OF INTELLECTUAL VACUUM, you may know that time as the Dark Ages.

So, does this not mean that the bible is creating divisions in society TODAY by repeatedly reminding society of a time when we *were* racist bigoted savages??

The bible *does* create divisions and it has for *millennia*. Crusades, Inquisitions, violence towards gays, racism, slavery, persecution, subjugation, invasion, native inhabitants displaced blah dee fucking blah blah blah blah

And to the point: who cleans up this mess the religious fuckers create?


Thanks a lot, arseholes…

With all the religious inspired intolerance, does this not mean that the State then has to “clean up the mess” created by these religious ideals? Investigating violence, needing to create tolerance laws, making up new legal procedures to handle these sorts of crimes.. all of these things cost the “State” money… that means taxes are paying for the shitty situations religion is creating.

How is that separation of Church and State?

How is that separation of church and state when the frikking church does NOT even pay tax or is given a reduction in the amount of tax it has to pay?

The church should be donating all it’s money to those affected by all of it’s bullshit.

The church should be footing the bill for promoting tolerance towards gays, witches, blacks, reds, Jews, Chinese, Buddhists, Hindus, in short, basically everyone who is not a christian.. and that includes tolerance towards the Catholics too, the biggest haters I’ve observed in this day and age of Catholics, are the “other” christians themselves.

oh and don’t get me started about christians saying that Catholics worship “dead people” … “Mary” is the fucking god damn fucking mother of your god damn fucking saviour, she’s not just some random DEAD PERSON you fucking arseholes.

The catholics can pay for educating all of Africa about condom use and stamping out this persisting crap of persecuting witches in the guise of children.. children are being kicked out of homes, abused, even MAIMED and KILLED, all because their parents have somehow got the idea that they are EVIL, that they were somehow responsible for crops failing and various other lame stuff that could not possibly be the fault of a child, but still is their fault, simply just because that child exists…

that’s right, children are being killed, tortured, kicked out of home, beaten, maimed, all for no other reason than because their parents and/or their local religious leaders deem them to be *evil*.

Oh yes, I hear what you are saying, there are, and always will be sections of society that promote bigotry and violence towards other groups of people that they dislike or who are different or whatever it is they use to justify their bullshit attitudes, but do we not have laws designed to punish people who can’t get along with society and feel the need to be bigoted and violent to those they dislike, *already*?

The bible is irrelevant to the law of society and yet… ppl proudly boast that they will follow the law of the bible before any law of man … ummm.. I CALL BULLSHIT

Bullshit has been called

So here’s a question, why is the bible excluded from the laws that are designed to discourage the promotion of bigotry?


Further more, the bible actually promotes notions that *are* currently *illegal* in many countries (slavery) and yet the bible remains freely available to all ages and yet no disclaimers are given.


uhmmm, ex-fucking-skuze me?

How is it separation of Church and State when the Church’s primary text is exempt from the laws of society? That’s not separation of church and state, that means the church outranks the law of society, at least in some regards, as it gets to get away with promoting the shit ppl lift from it unchecked. Just because it’s got Jesus on it, doesn’t mean it’s *good*.

and “yes” it’s *people* that make the bible bad, just like it’s people that kill people, not the weapon with which they use to kill. but if you take away a person’s weapon, is it not harder for them to kill someone? If we take away the bible are we not removing the source of this gay hating and other bullshit?

And again “yes”, I can just about hear the whiners, that being that there would still be people who would be and are, and always will forever be bigots that have nothing to do with the bible, well fair enough, but you know, it’s quite possible that ultimately they got these outdated ideals from their parents who got the idea from their parents who got the idea from the bible and so on. Who knows? But why take the risk?

The bible is just a book, I wouldn’t miss it, and you know if the bible got banned it might just inspire those “true” christians to actually do something about their fellow christians to cut out the fucking bullshit once and for all?

The point here being, is that it is a *known* fact that the bible creates divisions in society, look at the gay marriage debate, look at the people being murdered by gung-ho christians for whatever reason they have lifted from the bible. What about the mental cases who cut of their hands off for sinning with their hand, and parents who kill their children under the premise that they haven’t committed any sins so far, so they’ll get into heaven if they die now rah rah rah rah lots of stories.

So, we *know* as a *FACT* that the bible causes divisions and causes some really stupid ideas to be said out loud as well as those fucked up ideas actually being acted upon.

the end bit

If Church and State were truly separate, all religious texts would have disclaimers saying that you need to defer to the laws of the society you live in and that “god’s word” *actually* does NOT *actually* count when it comes to *actually* breaking the law.

and yet.. christians keep touting that the law of god outranks the law of man, that they will *ALWAYS* follow god before man.. If you don’t want to be a part of society you are welcome to fuck off and crawl back under the rock from whence you came.

and if that’s not good enough, all that bigotry promoting stuff can be taken right out of the bible, after all, it’s only a few verses, less than a dozen verses out tens of thousands, right? YOU WON’T MISS IT!! a lot of you haven’t even READ ANY OF IT!! and yes this would need to be a long term thing to breed out the bigotry as it might take a few generations to kill off the influence the bigoted bible has had.

either that or tax the churches like any other business. both would be better

and better still, make the bible, dynamic and localised to your particular area listing the laws of society where they conflict with the bible.. pffft.. with great big red lines running thru the text that is outdated and defunct, like 99.9% of it or we could take.asd;au23pa234f-a$#@$# ZC



Posted 6 August, 2009 by manabrau in bible, church-and-state, jesus, T.A.