when it comes to the existence of god, the burden of proof shouldn’t be one of establishing whether that supernatural entity exists or not, because honestly, that will never be proven or disproven so it is an endless pointless argument…
For my mind, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so you need to have god-like evidence in order to prove that a god is just that, ie. a *god*. Meaning to say that should such a creature exist in any capacity whatsoever, then according to the popular definitions of god being all powerful, everywhere and nowhere at once, knows everything, lives forever, infinitely clever etc etc, then god is such an infinitely complex being that even if you did have actual evidence you wouldn’t know what it represented, because to claim any knowledge of what this infinitely complex being called “god” is or what it is about or what it wants, is to insult that god… well, it would be, if your existence wasn’t so insignificant to it, that is.
I imagine god and our perception of such a thing as being like this: imagine a one dimensional universe; in a one dimensional universe there is only that one single point in that universe: there is no up and down, no left or right, there is no such thing as length, height and width. That single point could only be aware of its own existence, it is beyond the definition of a single dimension universe for there to be anything other than that single point. However, from our human point of view above the lower two dimensions in our three dimensional universe, we know that single points in space can be joined to make two dimensional representations, and we also know what two dimensional objects can be joined to make three dimensional objects.
In a single dimension universe, that single point of view could only ever hope that there was a dimension above it, it could never have proof of such a thing, because if it did have proof of there being a dimension beyond its own, it would require another single point in its universe to be a part of its single point universe in order to prove that there was something, *anything*, beyond its existence, but to do so, it would need to “transform” its single dimension universe, into at least a two dimensional universe.
So the only way that single point in its single dimension universe would be able to have “proof” of a higher dimension and remain in its current dimension, is if it made it all up, it could only be pretending that there was something more to its existence, regardless of whether it actually turned out to be completely right in its assertions!
So in regards to god, if you could prove that god exists, for me that would mean that doing so would defy the very definition of god because how could an infinitely complex being even be perceived by mortally bound humans from our lower point of view?? We can’t perceive god because we are like that single point in space, we only know of our single point in space, we can’t conceive of anything beyond that single point, because there is simply nothing in our perception that could represent anything outside our single point universe except for our *imagination*.
The reality of this point of view, is that the true blasphemy to god, is that humans had the audacity to dream up the concept of god in the first place. For my mind, the only reason humans invented god was because of human arrogance in their attempts to become more like god themselves, and to be like god, even in the smallest of degrees, is idolatry, at least according to the bible’s first commandment.
“Love thy god before all others” especially applies to those who are pretending to be god themselves, because if you claim to be a follower of Jesus, but then you don’t follow what he allegedly taught, then you are making up your own Jesus. You have your own personal Jesus in your brain; you are probably mistaking this Jesus of yours for your ego.
Soooo… seeing how this god creature can never be proven or disproven by us mere mortals without practically becoming gods ourselves, the burden of proof should shift to be one of the believer demonstrating that this fantastically enlightened being called “god” actually exists by the believer actually following what it taught.
Seriously, Jesus says in the bible, in three gospels, that if you want to go to heaven then sell all your stuff and give the money you make to the needy.
If christians want me to believe that this god of theirs exists and if they truly expect that they are going to get into heaven, then they can damn well show that they are serious about their religion by actually taking what their messiah taught seriously because it is more than apparent to me that the biggest hurdle for any christian, is to actually do what their messiah told them…
I mean, look at all the people telling others to follow Jesus when they aren’t even following what he taught, people who do that, are merely saying that they are following Jesus, they aren’t actually *doing* what he taught and if they aren’t doing what the biblical Jesus said, then that right there is a person who is pretending to be Jesus/god and in actual fact, seeing how this Jesus of theirs is actually their own ego, they are actually asking that you should follow *them* and believe in everything that *they* believe in. (and christians have the gall to say that atheists are pretending to be god?)
The object of getting everyone to merely say that they just believe, is that if *everyone* is merely just following Jesus by merely just saying that they are, then there will no reason for those pretend-to-be christians to feel guilt for not actually following their messiah’s teachings. something like: “Hey, if no-one else is doing what Jesus commanded, why should I bother as well? and seeing how everyone is still saying they follow Jesus, I will too, just so I can seem to fit in and be part of the group so as to not be excluded and not be taunted for not believing…” …
I look at atheists and christians, and the only difference between the two of them is that the atheist isn’t pretending to be something that they are not. The atheist is boldly declaring that they aren’t following Jesus, unlike the christian, who doesn’t have the perspicacity to realise or the balls to own up to the fact that they aren’t actually following what JC allegedly taught either.
Essentially, any christian objection to atheism is one of “how dare you not pretend to follow Jesus like I am!” .. the christian is jealous of the atheist ability to not be a bullshit artist and that the atheist has the ability to do good deeds because it is the right thing to do. Doing good deeds, regardless of your beliefs, was in fact the point of the Good Samaritan. If you do good deeds without claiming that you are christian, then you are already one up in JC’s good books, if you say you a christian, but then do nothing to prove that claim by doing good deeds, you are most certainly not in JC’s good books.
Don’t believe me? read the gospels of Mark, Luke and Matthew, any claims to the contrary that are supposedly from the bible, are very much likely to be things that Jesus didn’t say, and if Jesus didn’t say them, then what the fuck are you calling yourself christian for if you aren’t listening to your precious messiah? Are you a “Saint” Paulian? or an Old Testamentarian? or do you follow what *J*e*s*u*s* taught?
the outspoken and annoying christian feels a need to spread their empty faith because they are not following what the central figure of their religion even teaches, they feel the need for other people to have provide the burden of proof because they are not comfortable with their just believing in Jesus, it isn’t enough for them, they need to have others “just believe in Jesus” as well, so the mere existence of outspoken atheists is an affront to their empty declarations of their “just believe in Jesus” faith because the atheist represents the truth to them and the truth of christianity, especially in “western” nations, is that christians are not following their messiah either… Putting the burden of proof onto others is the christian saying “well, you aren’t helping the needy either!!” to which the non-believer position should be.. “while that may be true, unlike you, I don’t follow a supernatural being that commanded that if I want to get into heaven, then I will help the needy, to my own detriment, if need be”
Open declarations of atheism are announcements that are akin to saying “why should I follow what you are only *pretending* to be following, why the fuck should I pretend to follow your religion as well?? there is no way I am following your religion just to make you feel better about you *not* following what your precious messiah taught”
The christian burden of proof is shoved into the faces of christians by atheists by the atheist brazenly walking around declaring that they can be actual people without pretending to be a follower of Jesus. The atheist does not need to pretend to believe in something that they don’t even follow, this is an insult to the Christ-ego of the pretend-to-be-a-believers. How can the atheist NOT pretend to be a christian? how can they NOT go around merely declaring that they are good people? It doesn’t take much to pretend that you are a good person, so HOW can the atheist not pretend to be better than everyone else, it is blasphemy!
If everyone in a particular society walked around pretending to be followers of Christ, then there would be no guilt associated with not actually following what this Christ guy was trying to teach those who would allege to be one of his followers.
seriously, show me a christian person that can truly claim that they have given most of their money to the needy; could claim that they aren’t hateful; that they aren’t judgemental; that they are meek and don’t brag that they are a believer; that they would sooner die or let their family die than bring hurt upon someone else; that they help out people regardless of beliefs and creeds….
these are the things Jesus taught that you must do in order to follow him and get into heaven, the burden of proof is completely upon the believer to actually get in there and show everyone that they are doing as Jesus commanded… and even then, it is against the teachings of Jesus to be showing off that you are actually following his teachings by doing good deeds in front of others for the purpose of showing off that you are doing good deeds!!! Anything else that conflicts with the stuff i listed above that is supposedly from the bible, was more than likely not said by their precious Jesus in the first place..
remember, half the New Testament is supposedly written by some self appointed apostle that, at least up until the moment in the story where Jesus was crucified, was rounding up Jesus’ followers and executing them! “Saint” Paul was trying to eliminate Jesus… think about that…. nearly everything I have had a problem with from the New Testament is a “Saint” Paulism.
Proof to the non-believer that there is no such a thing as Jesus, should be the fact that the two billion people supposedly claiming to follow Jesus, haven’t spread their wealth out across the planet and made sure that every needy person on earth was no longer in need, you know, as their Lord and Saviour *commanded*… Commandments are generally not considered to be an optional thing that you can do, or even get away with doing a mere few times, giving to the needy would seem to be a compulsory precursor for heavenly entry to the christian.
I *facepalm* at the USA richest-nation-in-the-world christians and their claims that the USA is a christian nation; the USA has twice as many people in poverty as Australia has people, how is that possible in an alleged “christian” nation?
The burden of proof, at least for christians to prove that their is a Jesus and therefore a *god*, is to eliminate poverty world wide.
Until then, all of christianity is to be called into question as to what the fuck have that lot been doing for the last two millennia?