Archive for September 2010

just saying you believe in god means nothing ….. (religiorant)   Leave a comment

RELIGIORANT
just saying you believe in god means nothing …..

when somebody says “I believe in god”, it means nothing. It might mean something if you knew that person, so you might have an idea of what they mean when they say “god”, like if someone in your family said, “I believe in god”, you might know what they mean by that because you know them to be a good person by their actions..

but on the other hand, saying you believe in god, especially to a non-believer, could very well mean a lot of *unintended* things to many different people..

so while it might mean something “good” to the believer, this belief in god they are talking about, can be vastly different to what other people have as an idea for “believing in god”.

this is the very basis of why you should keep your religion/god to yourself, because by just saying that you believe, you aren’t showing us what you’ve learned from your religion, you are just saying something that you think will somehow affirm that “you are”, what this belief of yours says “you are”… eg. saying that you christian, is supposedly an admission that you follow the teachings of Jesus, and the implication there, is that you are a good person.

but how does a stranger actually know what this belief of yours means? just saying that you are a good person means nothing, so if you don’t show by example what your religion means, just saying you believe, means nothing.

This is the very reason why people scoff at claims of “peaceful” religions, because history has shown that religion has been anything but peaceful.

If it’s a religion of peace, then the violent actions of religious extremists speak much louder than the silence of the “peaceful” majority, who do nothing about their extremists, except to say that they aren’t true believers, of course.

BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT

If, for example, someone were to confess that they believe in Jesus, they would probably be given the benefit of the doubt and people would think that that was a good thing, because regardless if he was real or not, Jesus had some good stuff to teach. But by confessing a belief Jesus, the believer is asking us to judge their actions with *Jesus* as a frame of reference.

But, *Very* few believers are up to the task of being compared to Jesus.

so believe in Jesus if you want, but if you want to brag that you believe in JC, then you’re going to be judged in relation to the things he taught, so unless you really do believe in Jesus and his teachings and know them and follow them, it’s probably best to keep your belief to yourself, because people will just see you as being full of shit if you confess a belief in Christ, but then you turn out to be a hypocrite.

so just saying you believe without backing up your words with actions to match what is meant by those words, well, it makes you akin to a parrot, you are just repeating phrases that make you feel more loved.

and yes you *really* may feel uplifted by believing in something, but even if you do feel something good by believing, you are still going to be seen as repeating mere phrases by just saying that you believe.

BELIEF IS IRRELEVANT ANYWAY

but beliefs are irrelevant anyway, because if a non-believer and a believer actually talked to each other, they would find that they share many of the same values in life *anyway*, it’s just that there are these idolatrous believers who insist on bringing their beliefs into it, when their beliefs don’t really mean anything to the other person…

and guess what … that’s idolatry, it doesn’t *matter* what you say, it’s what you do.

the non-believer might also consider whether people saying that they believe in god, are merely not just saying that to *themselves*. In other words, it’s irrelevant that you see/hear them confess to their believing in god, they only make such affirmations to remind *themselves* that they believe.

And even if you only tell yourself that you believe in god/Jesus/allah and you don’t back up your beliefs with actions that would honour what your religion has taught you, then you still commit idolatry, you just aren’t bragging about it to everyone else.

if I see that you are a good person by the actions you take, then you can believe whatever you want… what you believe in means nothing to me, I don’t care what you believe, it’s your actions that will earn you my respect, or indeed, my contempt.

SO FUCKING WHAT?

when you say you believe… well? ahem, so fucking what?

who cares if you believe in Jesus? what difference does that even make if you believe god? what do I care if you praise Allah?

that’s like saying that you have a science degree, well, so what? What have you *done* with that degree? got a job? got a nice house? discovered some fancy science thing that will benefit all humanity? well?

Just saying you believe is also like making up things on your resume, you’ve said all this fancy stuff about yourself, but if you don’t live up to the image that you have painted, you’re just full of shit, are you not? just saying you believe is like saying you are a cop, but then you go break the law every chance you get.

a person can say they have read the bible, or they can tell another person to read the bible, but reading the bible isn’t the point of the bible is it? so just saying “read the bible” means nothing, you are making it out to be some sort of proof to justify your beliefs, it is *not* proof.

*YOU* are the proof of the message in the bible/torah/koran. *YOU* and your actions which you supposedly base on your beliefs are the only supporting evidence you have to show that you “believe in god”, at least, the only evidence that actually matters.

If you don’t demonstrate what you have learnt, then you are not doing anything but making the torah/bible/koran out to be some sort of thing that will magically make me believe.

that’s bullshit, just read and believe? if the person asking you to read the bible isn’t committing idolatry, then they are asking you to commit it instead.

by that same notion, the “scientific fields” of creationism/intelligent design, are incredibly elaborate examples of idolatry.

Creationism is a form of confirming your faith, ie. if creationism is true, then that validates the supporting ideology, but, creationism is a “thing”, if you need a thing to validate your beliefs, you commit idolatry.

you say your beliefs give you good moral guidance? well how can they if you just focus on “things” that symbolise your religion, and not on what you have supposedly learnt from it?

the message that your religion taught you, and how you behave in accordance with those teachings, is what actually matters.

JUST SAYING YOU BELIEVE, THAT’S BRAGGING

The boy who cried wolf, comes to my mind at this point when I think of people who “believe in” something but don’t back up their bragging by demonstrating what they have learnt. And it *is* bragging if you don’t back up your words with actions, as you must earn the right to brag, do you not?

when a believer speaks to non-believers and they just say that they are a believer in god, or that they Praise Jesus, or that they read the bible, or whatever praisy thing it is they have to say about their beliefs, that does *not* convey anything meaningful and useful to the non-believer… it does not demonstrate that the believer has learnt anything whatsoever from their religion, so their bragging means nothing to me, at least, nothing that they *want* it to mean.

this is the case because there is no common point of reference, a believer bases their beliefs on their feelings (eg “I feel that the bible/torah/qur’an is the word of god and that it has good things to teach”), and a non-believer also bases their very *lack* of belief in god/Jesus/allah upon their feelings as well (eg. “I feel that the bible/torah/qur’an is full of shit because too much ‘bad’ has been done in the name of what little ‘good’ that can be found in it”)…

we are humans, humans feel, beliefs are based on feelings, anything solely involving feelings, is bound to be unable to be easily communicated between a believer and a non-believer because there is no common point of reference in any meaningful conversation because belief in god is completely based upon *feelings*… (unless, of course, the parameters are explicitly established about what sort of ‘god’ is being spoken about, which can be a *very* painful process in itself)

so this idea of god, that a believer has, is just that.. it’s *their* personal *idea* of god, it’s *their* personal feelings on the matter, because if it wasn’t, you’d be able to show me some evidence that would instantly validate your faith, and if you have proof of your “god”, you don’t need faith, do you?

JUST SAYING THAT YOU BELIEVE DOESN’T MEAN A THING

so by just saying that you are a believer, as soon as someone hears/reads that, that notion you have described means nothing, because if that’s supposed to mean something, it doesn’t … how can it? there is no context, so the meaning is open to interpretation.

so in that regard, it does mean *one* thing.

it does mean that *you* are now speaking on behalf of this thing you have just confessed to having a belief in, *you* are now the personal representative of what ever it is you’re trying to ‘sell’, so it is *you* that will be judged by your actions and by those actions, your behaviour will then become part of the definition of whatever it is you’re trying to tell us about.

eg. just say the pope tried to cover up child rape, from that point on, whenever someone says something about “christianity”, I think of pope’s that try to cover up the fact that priests fuck little children

and the same could be said from a believer’s point of view as well, if someone purporting to be an atheist acted like a prick to them, their definition of atheism would then expand to include the idea that atheists are pricks.

which is fair enough, but…. non-believers do not go around boasting that they believe in anything that supposedly inspires them to be “good” people, which is the implication of saying that “you believe in god/Jesus/allah”, right?

so the choice is yours in how to act, if by your actions you are judged to be a good person, you will then be putting in a good word for whatever it is you say that you believe in.

however, if you are a prick, then that attitude will be added to the essence of what it means to be whatever it is you’re purporting to be.. ie. like it or not, you speak for your faith, if you do not want to speak for your faith, then it’s best not to advertise it.

eg. if you go around saying you’re a christian, and then you threaten people by saying you are going to snap their necks, you *will* be held as the *shiniest* example of your faith… the *Very* *Shiniest* example

In other words, if you want to praise Jesus/allah/god, then good for you, I’m not stopping you, but it’s your actions that you are judged by, your words of praise and other various adulations are nothing but idolatrous noise to the non-believer.

You say you are a believer? well we fucking heard you the first zillion times, so now it’s time to show us what you have learnt, because thus far, for every one christian actually apparently conforming to the christian ideas that I was taught (Jesus said to love everybody), I have seen at least a hundred that do not “Do unto others as they would have others do unto them”….

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Posted 22 September, 2010 by manabrau in bible, Christianity, god, idolatry, Islam, jesus, M.S., Religion Sux Arse, WP

god still could have made the universe Mr Hawking! (religion v science)   Leave a comment

RELIGION v SCIENCE

recently Stephen Hawking has made the announcement that god did not make the universe, which many of us suspected all along, DERRRRRRR, but of course this has sparked an outrage from the god-did-itters, so once again we see the “faithful” showing their extreme lack of faith, that their faith in god is “unshakeable”!!!

Or perhaps it would be more correct to say that this adverse reaction to what Hawking has said, is because people are demonstrating their complete lack of *imagination* in this ‘being’, they describe as god

However you want to look at it, the people upset at Mr Hawking, have imagined a god that has somehow been “defeated” by Mr Hawking. And if his words have somehow offended or otherwise upset the believer, then those people getting upset clearly have a limited idea of god, because how else can a single personal human opinion about god, upset so many faithsketeers?

If somebody’s idea of god can be “defeated” then that is proof that their “god” is limited, and the only limit imposed on god, is the limit of a person’s imagination.

And *any* god that can be defeated, defies the very concept of god, therefore their idea of god can not possibly be real, so that limited idea of god that people have in their heads, must be *completely* in the mind of it’s believer.

In other words, many people do not think big enough about their god, because 5000yrs ago, god had made the earth and everything on it, and two bright lights in the sky, and lots of other little lights in the sky… that’s a lot of stuff, and while that was *everything* back then, it didn’t quite convey the appropriate impression of the sheer size of the universe that we know about today.

ie. we estimate that there are a hundred thousand million galaxies, at least, each containing something like a thousand million stars, *each*

point is, the universe went from being about one light day across 5000yrs ago, to the estimated size today of being some 78 billion light years across or whatever size it is that just doesn’t make sense if you think about it, but the whole time, what god had apparently made during the past 5000yrs, got bigger and bigger and bigger.. this perfect god was time and time again shown to have been an under estimate on the part of the believers.

this is proof of idolatry, isn’t it?

god made the earth, oh and god made the sun and moon… oh and the planets .. and all their moons.. and the asteroids… oh and the other stars .. and the nebula… and the galaxies … and the galaxy clusters … and the black holes.. and the super-massive black-holes .. oh and god made the universe … clearly the concept of what god has done has expanded over the last few thousand years, much to the reluctance of believers at times.

when your idea of something turns out to be different to how that something is in reality, that’s idolatry, that’s being a fanatic, that’s hero worship, whatever the fuck you want to call it, you are bullshitting yourself about god, because the real god, if there is one, could NOT possibly by defeated by Mr Hawking, or any OTHER human for that matter.

So, if your god can be displaced by some human notion, then your GOD was just not big enough, therefore, your god wasn’t the real god, and the first (christian) commandment is, “thou shalt not worship any god other than the real god”… so anyone getting upset about their god being displaced, is going to HELL for worshipping the WRONG god.

Real world example: how often has some person you idolised, turned out to be a total jerk in reality? maybe the pop star you grew up loving in the 80s, turned out to be a paedophile? or how about the sports-person you thought was brilliant at their game, who turned out to be some steroid popping, bigoted homophobic, wife beating, arrogant racist? or the scientist whose work is still used in everyday science, still thought that god made the universe in six days?

The idea, or the concept, you had of this person turned out to be wrong.

This is the same effect with god, but in this case, the god idea changes gradually over many years, co-incidentally, as our science improves.

This is proof that people’s idea of god, is often not big enough, because they need to keep moving the goal posts, very reluctantly at times, because science has yet again, explained something that was traditionally explained by the believer as being done by god, because only a god could explain this fantastical fantastic thing, right? well, that was WRONG!! which means that the believer was so small minded about their god, that when another human concept came along, it was ABLE TO DISPLACE the believer’s notion of god.

In fact, the whole reason for the dark ages, was because the church wanted what we knew of the universe to actually stay as “god did it”, eg. they wanted it to stay in line with what was written a thousand years before.

Anyone still trying to get science out of the bible, is deliberately trying to perpetuate the dark ages. Using things written a thousand years ago by people who knew nothing of how science works, is *not* science, because eventually old ideas are completely thrown away, and quite frankly, the bible was not much of a starting point in terms of “science”, and to clutch onto a symbol of a previous time as being some sort of thing that it isn’t, well that’s idolatry too, isn’t it?

god is god, there is nothing that could “defeat” it, and yet, we still have people getting upset when told that god didn’t do this, and that god didn’t do that, and that god doesn’t exist .. boo frikking hooo ..

how is that possible? the only way god can be defeated, is if this god that is in your mind, is a shoddy pathetic example of “god”, because if your god can be defeated, then your god was never big enough to be worthy of being called god in the first place.. this is proof of idolatry, as your idea of god, was too small, and how can god be too small unless *you* were worshipping the *WRONG* god?

if your idea of god is too small, then you’re idea of god is not the same as the “real” god, because the “real” god could *never* be defeated by the opinion of some scientist guy.

this is why supernatural beliefs are supposed to be personal things, because you should expect them to be challenged for being too small if you must insist on stating those beliefs in public.

someone who truly believed in the awesome nature of god, would realise that “making the universe”, would be a small and petty task for a god anyway, so one should not be disappointed when told that their god didn’t make the universe, as it was a trivial task for a “god” in the first place.

how about god made existence itself? that’s a metaphorically vague task for god to have done that can’t be defeated by science, or how about god made “the nothing” that became the something that we are familiar with if you want to be “specific”?

any true believe in god, would not even have thought up the concept of a being called “god” in the first place, god would then just be part of what *is*, and you would not think about it at all…. like gravity, you don’t believe in gravity, do you?? does believing in gravity make it work, does it? you would just accept it as being there as part of what *is*, if nobody mentioned “gravity” you most likely would never have thought to identify this downward motion gravity thing, *as* a downward motion, because it would be normal, it would be all that you knew, it would be part of your very existence, so much so it wouldn’t even have a name, at least until someone taught you about it

god should be the same, you should just believe in god, and leave it at that, giving it any quality, is bound to wrong, so is therefore likely to be idolatry, and for people so fracking worried about going to hell, you probably want to stop committing idolatry every day.

Posted 13 September, 2010 by manabrau in astronomy, Christianity, dumbasses, god, jesus, Religion Sux Arse, WP